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Post by Barb on Jun 22, 2010 15:04:58 GMT -5
I'm kind of glad you can't!
But thank you for the thought!
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Post by rid0617 on Jun 22, 2010 17:58:42 GMT -5
Lets say I have seen how nasty political discussions get on this forum, especially when you are the one on the opposite side and was tired of being in the involved. When you are the minority conservative you don't stand a chance anyway so why try to state your side to show people anything. Therefore I state my opinion and don't try to change anyone's thinking. Remember how well a discussion about the tea party went? Or the health care discussion?
Now I sit back and wait my time until I can say, I tried. I tried to be in the 10% but it got too brutal.
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Post by Barb on Jun 22, 2010 19:21:10 GMT -5
Let's just say I asked for an explanation and you aren't willing to answer me and leave it at that. Not sure why people make comments that indicate they are so full of information from their research and then insult people who ask for the information to be shared.
And sorry...you didn't state your opinion. You "hinted" at some underhanded knowledge you have gained in your reseach. That's not an opinion. That's what people do when they want to create a "stir" with nothing to offer. And it makes me angry.
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Post by Barb on Jun 22, 2010 19:21:58 GMT -5
I also found it to be very interesting that you support the Tea Party, Rid, and apparently they are using some of Alinsky's strategy.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 22, 2010 19:33:31 GMT -5
I also found it to be very interesting that you support the Tea Party, Rid, and apparently they are using some of Alinsky's strategy. Barb, Thank you for your thoughtful attention to this thread. Careful - ya don't become a radical, community organizing, liberal weirdo. Your comment here is reminding me of one the best known radicals to ever live. He said, "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" :peacesign:
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Post by Barb on Jun 22, 2010 19:48:54 GMT -5
Skeptic,
I'd be proud to accomplish what both Alinsky and Obama have accomplished. I had already posted about Obama's work with the people in Chicago when he was prompting them to go and vote. Not many people realize he was very active in Chicago and with the Chicago senate before moving on to his U.S. Senate career. I have followed him for some time.
I'm flattered with your comment though. Thank you. Sometimes I feel like a "learner" when I read what you and Kathy and some others have to say. My interest in politics was late in coming and in many ways, I am "behind." However, I have enough intelligence to question most of what I read. And I particulary HATE innuendo. Don't say it, if you can't back it up. Even if your argument is not agreeable, at least you have something to support your statement. Thank you for always doing that.
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Post by tonya on Jun 22, 2010 21:44:50 GMT -5
Honestly Barb it would be a total waste of time. You and others will never turn against Obama no matter how much he screws up. I will not change my mind until he quits screwing up. Since this is an opinion forum I merely state my opinion. I do not try to change people's way of thinking. People have to look for that in themselves. You would have to read the book "Rules for Radicals" and some of the writings of William Ayers and you will find the path this government has been going down since President Obama was elected. Honestly, it would be a total waste of your time Rid, yet you continue to spend your time doing what you say is a waste of your time. Make of your f'g mind.
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Post by rid0617 on Jun 23, 2010 2:25:57 GMT -5
Honestly Barb it would be a total waste of time. You and others will never turn against Obama no matter how much he screws up. I will not change my mind until he quits screwing up. Since this is an opinion forum I merely state my opinion. I do not try to change people's way of thinking. People have to look for that in themselves. You would have to read the book "Rules for Radicals" and some of the writings of William Ayers and you will find the path this government has been going down since President Obama was elected. Honestly, it would be a total waste of your time Rid, yet you continue to spend your time doing what you say is a waste of your time. Make of your f'g mind. I believe your spell check failed you. I'm sure what you meant to say was make up your fucking mind. I know it would be a waste. There is a dominant feeling on this forum that is shared by the main players. Every time I have entered one of these discussions I have always been the one who is wrong. I'm the what ever the accusation is for that topic. And no matter what screw up Obama commits, the Obama fans will never forsake him. I've even been accused of not liking him since the beginning. Sure strange how on this forum in the past I said I wanted him because I wanted health care. But after seeing the final product (which still isn't done in the rules committee) I feel that will be a major error if it's not overturned in court. Someone who has already stated they disagree with you will never change their mind based on something said by someone else. That is the way it is supposed to be. Our opinions are what feed what makes us, us. Not talking around Barb but she has every right to feel the way she does, I have every right to feel the way I do. To try and change someones mind is disrespectful. To not respect someones opinion is just as disrespectful. You made the statement I waste my time doing what I say is a waste of time. Since i am merely stating how I feel as a poster on this forum, are you telling me I am wasting my time stating my opinion because no one wants to hear it? If this is the case Calc has lost control of this forum and there obviously is an approve line of thought and don't cross it. Anyone ever thought that might be why you see the older posters (age wise) spending less and less time posting? They get tired of being told how wrong they are? They figure it's not worth the hassle? I have been involved in too many of these that have become hurtful, nasty, profane on both sides of a discussion and after the last blow up I decided I will state my opinion as an equal poster in this forum and let it be. Those who agree can read it, those who don't can skip to the next comment. I quit explaining myself to anyone a long time ago. You asked why I did it again? Simple, I was responding to X. Not starting a discussion group. And for that reason I will continue to state my opinions until I'm notified there is only one acceptable line of thought and will do my part to keep this forum from being the next example of another forum one county north of you guys. And as for always having something to back up what I say, when I'm stating my personal opinion the only one I have to agree with is my personal beliefs and morals. This prove it with a link thing didn't start until the internet. As much as I would like to contribute to Calcs page count, I'm not going to let it be at my expense anymore.
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Post by KathyInArkansas on Jun 23, 2010 7:09:03 GMT -5
rid:
I don't think there is anyone on this forum that feels like someone with opposite views than them should not express their opinions or deny that they have a "right" to their opinion. But, that said...when someone posts an opinion based on "spin," inaccurate information, etc. they should expect to be challenged.
E.g., if I were to say, I remember having a book read to me when I was a child that said that the moon was made of green cheese, and I know my Mama would never mislead me; therefore, it is my opinion that the moon is made of green cheese and no one can change my mind on that, so there!!!
I would hope that you would come on here, provide me with some reliable information that would educate me and at least give me an option to either learn what the reality is and let me make a decision if I want to continue to live my life believing that the moon is made of green cheese or do I want to move on beyond that and investigate for myself to what is real and what is not. Not just search on the Internet for "The Moon is Made of Green Cheese" and then pick and choose those references that reinforce my belief that the moon is indeed made of green cheese.
As I have said, I am not real enamored with Obama at the moment; but, I don't care to make my opinions based on what someone whose only interest is in making him look like the devil incarnate and will spin whatever shred of information out there to do so, and if there isn't any, will just make it up as they go along.
A perfect example of someone who wants to know the facts and is willing to listen, read, ask, investigate, etc., is when I saw Barb evolve from her unyeilding support of the Bush administration to a realization that it wasn't what she initially believed it to be.
Again, you have a perfect right to your opinions and to post them. I don't think anyone is interested in denying you that; but, in doing so we all subject ourselves to being questioned and challenged--it is all part of political debate and forums in general.
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Post by Barb on Jun 23, 2010 19:05:44 GMT -5
What pisses me off is that I have never done what Rid is accusing me of doing. I asked you the damn question Rid and I was the one in the aforementioned posts before that was trying to ease the way when things were getting rough because ALWAYS on this forum and every forum, I respect a persons right to state an opinion even if I don't agree with it.
So, I feel I deserve an answer to my question from you because I have not acted in the way you are describing. I have, in the past, respected people enough so that not only did I change who I was supporting, I changed parties. That's a pretty big step for a person you accuse of having my mind made up already and not being open to other's opinions.
And to take a stronger note....I don't believe you did all that research and have dire information on Obama. I think you said it for impact but there is nothing to share. I've always spoken to you in a kind way, but I'm halfway with Tonya on this. You opened a door that you slammed shut in my face.
And, no, I don't want you to stop posting. Nor do I want you to make assumptions about me when I have tried so hard to keep things respectable and yet, interesting.
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Post by Barb on Jun 23, 2010 19:19:26 GMT -5
As for my opinion on Obama.....the one you accused us of being in love with, Rid?
I don't love him, nor do I see him as the second coming of Christ.
I am on the fence at this moment. There are things I question....most of which have to do with the economy....and that is something that I feel very unqualified to judge. I simply do not have the knowledge of what it takes to pull a country out of a depression to a strong economic state. I get this impression that people were disappointed that two weeks after Obama was sworn in, we weren't out of the hole. Bush made a mess. The "changing of the guard" wasn't the fix. It is what Obama does over a period of time that will tell. Yes, he's spending. Is that the right choice or not? I don't know.
I'm sick of the bullshit I've been wading through. The "commie" accusations....why is that? First it was because he didn't put his hand over his heart, didn't wear a flag pin, was sworn in on the Koran (a total lie, that was another senator), his dad was Muslim, he went to a muslim school as a child, his birth certificate was fake.....BULLSHIT.
Now he's not jumping into the gulf with a giant presidential sponge and soaking up the spill. (or spew). Everyone bitching he isnt doing enough when no one wants to hear what he has done and is doing. It's not his spill. It's BP's spill. His job is to make them move fast to fix it and pay for it...and that's what I see him doing.
I'm not commenting on the health care bill. I haven't read it. And Rid...if you have...then please, tell me EXACTLY what you disagree with. I don't even want to read it yet...I think it there are still changes to come to it. I don't fucking care at this moment. We needed health care reform, the republicans didn't want to come to the plate, and left it in the lap of the democrats and now they want to bitch and moan about it. They need to STFU and cooperate.
And then there's the tea party bitching and moaning about all the high taxes they are being forced to pay. Guess no one told them their taxes were lowered this year.
Tell me again...what, exactly, is so horribly wrong with what Obama is doing?
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Post by rid0617 on Jun 24, 2010 3:21:55 GMT -5
I know Barb has never done some of the things I've said. I will respond more to this tomorrow. Feeling weird tonight and can't put my finger on what's wrong.
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Post by Barb on Jun 24, 2010 23:31:23 GMT -5
Hope you're soon feeling better and I will be looking forward to your reply.
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