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Post by IncogNITO on Jun 24, 2009 19:33:16 GMT -5
I was talking to Father Paul today over a sandwich and good old fashion southern ice tea. He had an thought that kind of made sense to me.
He feels that organized religion takes strong confident people and continues to build their faith and kindness and they use it to build others up. Middle of the road people stay that way never reaching, never questioning just sitting in the middle of the church never building themselves or their fellow man. Those who are not confident or have faith in themselves attack others with faith and become cruel using their faith more often as a weapon then a way to build others up. These are people who reach hard for power with in their church as a way to build themselves up.
Any thoughts?
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Post by rid0617 on Jun 28, 2009 4:08:31 GMT -5
Well......no one else responded so I figured I would with my experiences. I have gone from sitting in a church every time the doors are open to someone who is totally against organized religion. Churches I feel are doing more to turn people away from Christ than sins of the world.
Churches follow their doctrines with no variations possible. I informed one pastor I was not the type of member who sings where you lead me I will follow, what you feed me I will swallow.
Most of the churches I have been to feel they need to use this doctrine as a way to regulate members lives because they have no faith the member could make the right decisions. I went to one church (Baptist) who informed me if I was a good Christian I would not eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol. I told him I didn't not believe Christians should run like scared rabbits from things like this and my faith was strong enough to sit in the middle of temptation and not be tempted.
I am not at the point I have an excellent relationship with Christ as long as I do not involve a church. I watch the preachers on TV that share my belief structure, listen to Christian contemporary music and keep him in my heart.
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Post by IncogNITO on Jun 28, 2009 18:57:00 GMT -5
Well......no one else responded so I figured I would with my experiences. I have gone from sitting in a church every time the doors are open to someone who is totally against organized religion. Churches I feel are doing more to turn people away from Christ than sins of the world. Churches follow their doctrines with no variations possible. I informed one pastor I was not the type of member who sings where you lead me I will follow, what you feed me I will swallow. Most of the churches I have been to feel they need to use this doctrine as a way to regulate members lives because they have no faith the member could make the right decisions. I went to one church (Baptist) who informed me if I was a good Christian I would not eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol. I told him I didn't not believe Christians should run like scared rabbits from things like this and my faith was strong enough to sit in the middle of temptation and not be tempted. I am not at the point I have an excellent relationship with Christ as long as I do not involve a church. I watch the preachers on TV that share my belief structure, listen to Christian contemporary music and keep him in my heart. Rid I would have to say you have an excellent relationship with God. Making folks sign a paper saying you will live a particular way is becoming more popular as Christians begin to feel outnumbered. Being all inclusive is the only thing that will reverse that trend and those to insecure in their Christianity will try and force more and more restrictions on others. Nito
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Post by rid0617 on Jun 29, 2009 1:54:32 GMT -5
BeeGee your a lot like me. Whether it be while we had lives and jobs or since we've become sick we have seen God at work in our lives and would be total fools to deny it. I have seen many miracles in my life. The one that rattles me to this day, I walked into a Krystal restaurant totally unaware an armed robbery was in progress. The maggot pointed his gun towards me and pulled the trigger. After he was arrested and the gun was taken to the crime lab every bullet fired.
While it may seem strange I see Jesus as a friend. If I can't figure something out as my brain gets worse and worse when I do figure it out I always thank Jesus. I know he was the one who helped me.
Many churches put doctrinal (wow that really is a word) restrictions on it's members. Instead of giving them the strength and opportunity to show their faith or fail and strengthen after that, they just say you should not do this and that.
As strange as this may seem I believe God sets different levels of understanding for each person. While I may feel he does not want me taking part in something because it is wrong for me that does not make it wrong for someone else. Drinking is the best example I can give.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. I saw the suffering and child abuse it brings. Because I am the only person going back 6 generations in my family that is not an alcoholic God has brought my understanding that it is wrong. But at the same time another Christian can drink with dinner and is not sinning. Churches want to stamp all of its members out of the same cookie cutter.
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Post by IncogNITO on Jun 29, 2009 23:07:46 GMT -5
You two would be good examples of how Father Paul says Christianity works in men with confidence in themselves. I know the issue is much more complexed yet sometimes to get a handle on something you start by taking the simplest explanation and explore from there.
Nito
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Post by rid0617 on Jun 30, 2009 2:29:10 GMT -5
I have a feeling even in our shape BeeGee and I are still pretty confident in ourselves LOL
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Post by IncogNITO on Jun 30, 2009 16:05:24 GMT -5
If you were not you would not still be around.
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Post by IncogNITO on Jun 30, 2009 22:31:10 GMT -5
Arrogance seems to be part of the problem. What I believe is right since you don't believe like me you are damned.
We see the meanness all around us. Politics, schools and church against church. I am not sure we are teaching alternatives to to this meanness. We are hugely critical of anyone or anything different. We are so busy being critical that we fail to use the power that Jesus sacrifice taught us. Sacrifice, Kindness and compassion can work miracles. But if our Christian leaders are running scared because of declining numbers it is only going to get worse.
Nito
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Post by rid0617 on Jul 1, 2009 2:33:48 GMT -5
I was reading the other day that the Southern Baptist Convention had a meeting to discuss the declining numbers in attendance and baptisms. Almost gave me the impression they had quotas to be a successful church.
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Post by IncogNITO on Jul 1, 2009 10:04:51 GMT -5
Membership numbers play a big part in the status of your church with the SB's. You can be brought low from being a full fledge voting member to a lowly mission who just gets to do what they are told. That is why the Free Will Baptist numbers now include many Southern Baptist. The National Organization at SB doesn't have the time to help a struggling church. Their time is spent dealing with those who can support the National Organization and it's causes. I know this may sound unfair and highly critical and to an extent it is. But it isn't that ole time religion anymore. You just pointed out another area where we are failing. Because it is those small struggling community churches that can bring folks back in. The reflect the values of the community in ways a National Organization can not. It like Washington it is no longer connected to the people they lead. They just expect everyone to follow along. I could also say it is like the Vatican.
Nito
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Post by IncogNITO on Jul 9, 2009 21:37:05 GMT -5
I was raised Southern Baptist as well. Now I am Catholic. But what I am talking about is the National Organization not individual Churches. The Catholic National and International guidelines are just as bad.
Nito
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