In fact, if I had to give an edge, I'd have to give it to McCain. He played his experience card very well.
OTOH Obama was no slouch. He came across as intelligent, articulate and confident, and I personally like his stance on Pakistan. I also like the fact he's willing to talk to our 'enemies' in person.
Either way, the Bush administration is on its way out, and for this I think we can all be thankful.
Tonight I think Obama came through with flying colors. He answered questions in an honest and intelligent manner. McCain, OTOH, came across as well-rehearsed. He identified our major problems and claims he can fix them, but he doesn't supply details. Apparently we have to elect him to find out what his plans are.
Also, putting Palin on the ticket was a bad move. I think the Cheney/Rove-led GOP overestimated the stupidity of the average American citizen.
I'm putting my trust in Obama. I hope he doesn't let me down.
Re: I have made my decision..... « Reply #1 on Oct 16, 2008, 2:32am »
He was much more articulate than McCain. McCain seemed desperate. Oh yea, that's right he has reason to be. When you pull your staff out of 3 states you pretty well know your behind the 8 ball. This economy isn't helping him a bit either. People remember good times under Clinton, slow decline then crash under Bush. The market is only 1400 points from losing 50% of it's value from the record high.
Warning: gratuitous posting follows. {I can see the eyes glassing over now.}
"H 32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I 33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);" http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm
July 1997, South Movement, "the path of Jihad and proper action": "Those who desire to face up to the Zionists conspiracies, intransigence, and aggressiveness must proceed towards the advance centers of capabilities in the greater Arab homeland and to the centers of the knowledge, honesty and sincerity with whole heartiness if the aim was to implement a serious plan to save others from their dilemma or to rely on those capable centers; well-known for their positions regarding the enemy, to gain precise concessions from it with justified maneuvers even if such centers including Baghdad not in agreement with those concerned, over the objectives and aims of the required maneuvers." (On the 29th anniversary of Iraq's national day (the 17th of July 1968 revolution). President Saddam Hussein made an important comprehensive and nation wide address) http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/countries/Iraq/speech.htm
December 1997, South Movement: "'If the United Nations fails to respond to the Organization of the Islamic Conference (meeting in Tehran) then the Muslim world must act and defy these sanctions,' Farrakhan told an audience of union representatives in the Iraqi capital." (Louis Farrakhan) http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/southnews/Dec12.htm
September, 16th, 2001: "Whenever a nation becomes great and powerful by God’s Permission, as America has; whenever a nation becomes the undisputed ruler of the world, as America has, by Allah’s Permission; when a nation becomes the only remaining superpower, having the power to destroy other nations and people by the tens of thousands and millions, as Allah has permitted America the power to do, and that nation then has a spiritual lapse and begins to sink into moral decline, the Qur’an teaches that Allah (God) raises a messenger, but he raises that messenger from among the poor and the abject to guide and to warn the great and the powerful.
Allah (God) knows that the powerful will not heed a warning coming from their ex-slave or from the weak or from the abject, so the Qur’an teaches that Allah (God) then seizes that nation with distress and affliction, that it might humble itself. For only in humility can the proud and the powerful heed the Guidance of God, which is mercy and grace from Himself. Allah (God) used this tragedy, hopefully, to bring a great nation to Himself." (Louis Farrakhan) http://www.africawithin.com/farrakhan/farrakhan_response_911.htm
“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared‘ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns.” http://www.cmaucc.org/EMRJeremiahWright2.pdf
September 2001: "Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General...David Muller, South Movement, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia" (Workers World Oct. 4, 2001: Join a new anti-war coalition) http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/call1004.php
"Some voices have risen on the part of some peoples, journalists, writers, and, in a very restricted way, the voices of those who are preparing themselves, in the shadow, to replace the rulers there." (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)
Wow, the policies of Obama and his Million Man marching buddy are exactly alike, who would have known?:
December 1997: "Let's sit down and talk to Saddam Hussein, leader-to-leader, human being to human being. And I do believe he wants a better relationship with America, and I hope when I go to Iraq that I will be able to report to American people that here is a man that is ready to sit down talk with the American administration and come to terms with the disagreements with America," (Louis Farrakhan) http://worldfriendshiptour.noi.org/departure.html
“I first met Democratic presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama almost ten years ago when, as my representative in the Illinois state senate, he came to speak at the University of Chicago. He impressed me as progressive, intelligent and charismatic. I distinctly remember thinking 'if only a man of this calibre could become president one day.'“… …“He is merely doing what he thinks is necessary to get elected and he will continue doing it as long as it keeps him in power.” (How Barack Obama learned to love Israel Ali Abunimah, The Electronic Intifada, 4 March 2007) http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6619.shtml
"Beware the Fifth Columnist, Homegrown hateful racist. His 'Million Man March' of hate, He can’t deny it when on tape. 'Allah raises a messenger' So said the Islamic minister. 'To guide and to warn' Of an evil god’s scorn. I am not surprised Since I have kept apprised. He’s visited our enemy And shown his enmity." (Posted Thu 04 Oct 2001)
"When Sen. Barack Obama 'rejected' and 'denounced' the support of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan during the MSNBC debate last week, it wasn't his finest hour.
Fortunately for Obama, most black people understand the game.
Obama should have found a way to escape Russert's trap without denigrating Farrakhan's legacy.
If Janie never found this site, would someone else please tell me how that brainwashing is supposed to work?
I still think Operation Iraqi Freedom was just and justified in enfranchising a people, as I still oppose the lukewarm "liberal" arts of war of containment, Oil for Food, and "Peace" for Greed on the backs of slaves, who the Obamanation would ethnically cleanse in using Saddam Hussein as a "cork in the bottle" to contain Iran to maintain Sunni dominance in violation of Article One of the United Nations (of tyrants too) Charter.
"When John McCain said we could just muddle through in Afghanistan, I argued for more resources and more troops to finish the fight against the terrorists who actually attacked us on 9/11, and made clear that we must take out Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants if we have them in our sights." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/us/pol....gewanted=4&_r=1
Tell me, you wouldn't happen to know, who are the magical “they” that Saddam said “should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings?”
“As we said before to those who launched aggressions on us, including the US, in and before Um-Almarik (the mother of the battles), the world, like Iraq and its Arab nation, needs steadfastness to face the aggression, make it miss its targets. It must not allow the US to be victorious. The victory of the US and its allies over Iraq would conceal the opposing attitude and analysis, and would not allow it to emerge again for a long time.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)
The id of Saddam thought our “aggression” in Afghanistan, our Al Quacka target, was an attack against Iraq‘s opposing attitude and analysis (known as “Jihad and proper action”).
“On the basis of what we said about Iraq while confronting aggressions, the world now needs to abort the US aggressive schemes, including its aggression on the Afghan people, which must stop.
Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means.
To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings. It is only normal to say that punishment is a necessity in our world, because what is a necessity in the other world must also be necessary in our world on Earth. But, the punishment in the other world is faire and just, and the prophets and messengers of God (peace be upon them all) conducted punishment and called for it in justice, and not on the basis of suspicions and whims.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001""
“Once again, we say that, injustice and the pressure that results from it on people lead to explosions. As explosions are not always organized, it is to be expected that they may harm those who make them and others. The events of September 11, should be seen on this basis, and on the basis of imbalanced reactions, on the part of governments accused of being democratic, if the Americans are sure that these were carried out by people from abroad.
To concentrate not on what is important, but rather on what is the most important, we say again that after having seen that the flames of any fire can expand to cover all the world, it first and foremost, needs justice based on fairness. The best and most sublime expression of this is in what we have learned from what God the Al Mighty ordered to be, or not to be.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)
"What was gained by keeping Saddam? Nothing but a future of deadly bedlam. The nature of terror requires fear, Dark shadows where nothing is clear. Terror stalks quite well despite the laws, Which don’t stop anything without claws. “To be, are not” as the bard would say, let the wolves circle or scare them away, To come back with what they have sired; It’s with those tactics war we are mired: Do you know the tragedy had a reason, Justice delayed things out of season. Why should we wait for the rutting pig, While at the same time our own grave dig. Read it again, “Hamlet” is full of wisdom, But requires knowledge of Gods Kingdom. Claudius understood in that last prayer, What was delayed made a greater slayer." (Sun 23 Sep 2001 09:46:10 PM EDT)
“It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world’s most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; [/b]restoring our values[/b]; and securing a more resilient homeland.” (Remarks of Senator Barack Obama The War We Need to Win Wednesday, August 1, 2007) http://www.wilsoncenter.org/events/docs/obamasp0807.pdf
After ten thousand times of that being shoved in my face… EAT IT “LIBERALS”
Obama is such a warmonger:
"Book, I agree if we are attacked we should defend ourselves.
But Afghanistan did NOT attack us. Plain simple facts seem to allude you.
No specific country attacked us, but if you had to pick the one that was most involved, you would have to pick Saudi, not Afghanistan....." (Janie, Member # 923, July 2003)
Something from the World Socialist Web Site would be appropriate at this point:
"The African-American Democrat is being groomed for national leadership. His speech at the Democratic convention, a homily on hard work, individual responsibility and the American dream, would have been well received at a Republican convention not so many years ago. But in 2004, Obama is passed off as a 'progressive' politician." (Democratic keynote speaker Barack Obama calls for missile strikes on Iran) http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/oct2004/obam-o01.shtml
"Iran is proceeding now in ways that were unimaginable until we invaded Iraq and basically did what they said, which is provide the Shia with the ability to do what they haven't been able to do in 1200 years, gain a position of dominance over the Sunni." (Democrat, Sen. KERRY, Obama supporter)
I think the magical "they" referenced there might be Janie's Saudis.
"Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values." (Barack Hussein Obama)
As someone who is still clinging to my guns and religion--after finisher's post five down on page 3 misteriously moved to the first post of the "Liberals!" topic--I am still waiting for that list of universal Whore of Babylon values, you wouldn't happen to have those would you?
I need that list so I will know what to think when the brownshirts come to change my mindset:
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5128294616187563612&hl=en
Re: I have made my decision..... « Reply #9 on Oct 26, 2008, 6:50pm »
The Mrs & I voted last week so we know that he has at least two votes!! These sorts of things are the results of the Rove playbook of nasties which he is infamous for. Keep throwing out the slime and crap and hopefully some of it will stick. I/we are normally pretty much middle of the road sorts of people who do not go for the extremes and when I saw that McCain had hired Rove as an adviser I knew that this would increase and get worse. If McCain wants to know who to blame for his losing he doesn't have to look any further that his political advisers and You Betcha!! *wink*wink* One thing is for sure, he will never admit that he himself is at fault for his own downfall. Maybe a nice lady but she is way out of her league and whatever political ambitions she may have had are going into the toilet with her.
Rove had nothing to do with those Ali Abunimah and Mary Mitchell disclaimers.
Because I voted against containment in 1992, by voting for Andre Marrou to protest the Iraq war, it would be impossible for me to vote for Obama's containment policy now. On 911 I could have pulled up an older topic on Israel, where if I remember correctly, only me and Flacal were for ending the sanctions, with me saying I preferred we remove Saddam, where I brought up the Treaty of Versailles. The simple fact is if did not get hit because of that policy, we got hit because the policy gave the enemy a good recruiting poster.
The simple fact is that Obama's containment policy is the very policy which Louis Farrakhan called terrorism in his 1997 trip to Iraq and Iran, yet Louis Farrakhan says Obama is the hope of the entire world, why? One of the two must be lying. Ali Abunimah says Obama is lying about Israel, and Mary Mitchell is saying Obama is lying about rejecting Louis Farrakhan. Nothing says Obama is not a Christian, but Obama's Christian minster certainly is a friend of the fifth column Louis Farrakhan. If McCain had only left David Koresh's church after it burst into flames claiming he did not know David Koresh went on tour like Wright did Louis Farrakhan's world friendship tour, would you believe him?
This it not Karl Rove, but the fact remains the questions were never been asked:
"When is a real journalist going to put some serious questions about containment in front of the candidates?
And I have no excuse for it. I told Solar I was against the first Bush tax cuts, and I also told solar I supported the war in Iraq even if we lost. Well, that loss included this one. Well, I am sorry if people do not understand, I do not, I do NOT regret supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Whether you can put FDR's picture back on the mantle with a repainting to make him look like Obama, I do not know.
I do not know why "liberals" would be upset with Bush or Rove, they gave them the Newer Deal and the Greater Society on a silver platter.
PS. I am not smarter than you. I am more stubborn.
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